"Being challenging shouldn't be seen as aggressive - it's just doing your job properly”
In a world where politicians are harder to pin down than a slippery kipper on a plate, there was one interview from last week’s Tory party conference that really cut through. Kathryn Samson, Westminster Correspondent at STV News, has been praised for her “proper” interviewing and “great journalism” after some eyebrow-raising exchanges with the Primeminister.
As Boris Johnson tried to duck and pivot to easier topics, the political reporter would not let him off the hook, resulting in exchanges which have been viewed more than half a million times on Twitter alone. Snippets of the interview were shown on Good Morning Britain, prompting praise from fellow journalists far and wide.
“I've done three interviews with the Prime Minister and they've all had quite big social media pickup in Scotland,” said Kathryn, “But this seemed to take off much more UK-wide, especially after Alastair Campbell tweeted about it.”
“He was actually presenting Good Morning Britain the next day and they chose to run my interview a few times through the morning, which was a surprise to me. I woke up in bed with text messages asking, 'Are you on Good Morning Britain just now?’
“I was thinking, ‘No, I'm in bed.’ I didn't know that was going to happen but it was obviously amazing to get that recognition from network colleagues.”
Consummate professional Kathryn made the interview look very natural but she puts that down to preparation, focus and confidence. One of the notable features was the waving of a £20 note as Boris Johnson was asked about an end to the universal credit uplift.
We asked Kathryn to share some of her top tips for a robust political interview.
Why did you use a prop?
“The thinking behind that was that the Prime Minister was doing a round of interviews that day with multiple ITV regions and a few days before he'd done multiple interviews with journalists from BBC regions.
“It was clear that the universal credit story was extremely important, but he'd already been asked about that a lot. Politicians are trained on what to expect in interviews and know to have certain lines prepared. The £20 note idea came from a chat the night before conference. We wondered what Boris would spend £20 on and it came to us that if I got hold of a £20 note, perhaps that would produce a different sort of answer.
“It was basically a more creative way of asking a question that had been asked many times before to try and provoke a slightly different response. I knew I wanted to ask about peerages too, after the appointment of Malcolm Offord to the Scotland Office, so I thought the note could also be used to make a point about that. How many of these notes would it take to buy a peerage, Prime Minister? It struck me as a useful device to link threads of the interview together.
“There's also a surprise element involved. I had it placed under a page in my notebook. I wouldn't use a prop for every interview but I felt it was right for this and provided a strong visual reference point, which is important in TV.”
How important is preparation?
“Every politician is different and it's important to think about who they are, watch some interviews they've done before or think back on interviews you've done with them before.
“I've interviewed the Prime Minister twice before and his style is to give long, divergent answers. You're given a set amount of time - in this case it was five minutes. That time is strictly regulated and you are told to stop when the time us up, so I’ve found I need a technique to try and make the most of it.”
“There is always a risk you'll be talked out of your timeslot and you don't get to the questions you really want to ask. I find with that style of interviewee it's good to really keep focussed and interrupt when you can feel it's going off on a tangent. You have to really listen to the answer and find that moment to pull things back onto what you're actually asking about.
“A lot of that is having the confidence to interrupt, to say: ‘I'm sorry, but what I was actually asking was this...”
How do you tread the line between being assertive and aggressive?
“It isn’t just a problem for women, but this can be more of a problem for women, in my experience. It’s getting better, but some people are still not comfortable seeing women challenging people in positions of authority. I still think women are more likely to be called ‘aggressive’ for being ‘assertive.’
“It’s something that can be conditioned into people from childhood. A little girl might get called ‘bossy’ for the same sort of behaviour that would win a little boy praise for being ‘confident.’
“You're always conscious of the line but it hasn't stopped me being who I am. As long as you're fair, I don't think being challenging should be seen as being aggressive. That should be seen as doing your job properly.
“Most of my interviews, including my interviews with the Prime Minister, they're tough interviews, but we usually end on good terms. I always say thank you very much for your time at the end and I will always be polite to the other staff in the room.’’
How should you frame questions?
“It's best to keep your questions direct and to the point.
“Sometimes where interviewers fall down is where they try and show how much they know in a question and it becomes too long. Or it becomes a multiple set of questions and then what happens is that the person answers the easiest of three questions and avoids the hardest one completely. The number one tip to getting somewhere is to ask short, direct questions that don't allow for too much wriggle room.”
Do you still get nervous?
“A lot of us who interview major public figures will always look confident when we appear on screen but of course it can be nerve-wracking. For these conference interviews with the Prime Minister a number of journalists sit together waiting to go in, one after another like on a production line, and there's time for self -doubt to creep in as others discuss what they plan to ask.
“You're aware that these big interviews are rare and you really don't want to waste the opportunity.
“I do think it's very important, particularly in broadcast interviews, to try and look relaxed and comfortable, however you feel inside and to try and maintain eye contact, and make it clear that you shouldn’t be underestimated.”
Perish the thought.
Many thanks to Kathryn Samson (@stvkathryn) for sharing some of her insights and tips with Women in Journalism Scotland readers.